There actually have been findings of marginata out of range in N Greece on a few occasions. All have been proven or at least regarded as anthropogenic. I should have a paper on this somewhere, eventhough I seem to remember it was not as far north as Thessaloniki. 

So marginata and graeca ibera interbreeds without any problems and the offsprings are fertile (at least in one following generation, F2), maybe it would be the best, to remove the marginated tortoise out of the ibera population!

Mario 

I wonder if I should take that individual and transfer it South once I'm going to Evia tomorrow, but I didn't know if that was the only one of its kind in that forest... (It seems to me very strange to meet the one and only marginata of the whole mountain!) 

Well, who knows, Ilias? Maybe someone released let's say 10. That still doesn't mean that it's best to remove any animal that you might find. In theory, it's not the best of ideas to just drop it somewhere south, but rather get it to a care centre. I would advise you to get in touch with Maria & co. and ask there opinion. 

Maybe you´ve been the lucky guy and found the only one in that particular area!
But I wouldn´t transfer it to Evia, so nobody knows of the exact origin of that tortoise. Maybe it should live in a fenced garden for the rest of its life!

Mario 

>So marginata and graeca ibera interbreeds without any problems and the offsprings are fertile

Mario I didn't say that. Maybe do you mean that this is fact? 

Ilias, I think Mario meant to write "As" instead of "So" = yes, he stated this as factual.
 

Yes, its fact!
We have got hybrids from both species and the offsprings were breeding successfully after 7 or 8 years. 

shit. now I have to go there and find it again...
I removed the female but he's going to find another one soon 

well it has been confirmed... some kilometers away from the spot I saw that big male, today I found a HUGE female (never seen bigger!). Between the 2 spots are rocky hills, cliffs, small rivers etc. I believe now it is a fact. Thessaloniki is the 1st known place in which all 3 european turtles and the 2 terrapins are living together.

Can anyone describe or show a photo of what a hybrid of T.graeca x T.marginata should look like, in case I ever see one there. 

Wow that is interesting! It is entirely possible that they are in fact a natural population, but perhaps T.graeca is the more abundant and that is why you have not seen many. But of course tortoises have been moved around alot over the centuries in the Mediterranean.
Ilias, you should show me this place because I have never seen Testudo marginata before!
Matt 

Very interesting Illias, I'll certainly look out for them next week when staying around Olymp to see if they are found in the area between Thesaloniki and more to the south. 

Hi Ilias

2009 I found this big animal 20km to the east of Thessaloniki:

I don't know the cast-iron differences between the two species, but it looks like T. marginata to me. Or is it T. graeca? However, if you are interested to know the locality, just send me an e-mail.

Thomas 

I'm not sure Thomas, I can't tell by this photo, I've seen graeca with such a shell, look the photo below.

If it's marginata that's even more further!
Do you have other photos of that animal? 

I just did a little internet research. After this I assume that it's T. graeca. The body shape seems to be too "round" for marginata. 

For identification of Testudo marginata, it is important also to take photos of the plastron. Have you done that or could you possibly do it for these northern Greek tortoises?

Kind regards,
Henrik Bringsøe 

Thomas and Ilias,


Thomas, your tortoise is a graeca ibera for sure.
You may check if its graeca or marginata very easy, having a look to the Plastron.
Marginata ALLWAYS has black triangles on each plastron shield. The Plastron of graeca is black clouded to entire black and NEVER shows triangles.

Greetings from Morocco,
Mario

PS: here are a few lines and pics from the first two weeks in Morocco:
http://www.fieldherping.eu/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=381 

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